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Webinar ID: 404-406-994
Join us for this webinar and listen to an experienced, global panel of insurance professionals present, discuss and answer your questions on the theme of “Digital Bancassurance”.
Our webinar will cover viewpoints from Thought Leaders on bancassurance products in the digital age.
By participating live you can help to shape the panel questions and also participate in our live poll. Registered participants who are unable to attend will be emailed a link to the recording of the webinar.
- Why is digital bancassurance on the agenda?
- What are the emerging success stories?
- How to ensure sales and customer engagement?
- Can banks reach the mass market customer with insurance offerings?
- What infrastructure is needed for digital bancassurance?
Note* – This transcript is Machine generated and not 100% exact. It is designed to help in search.
Timestamp: 0 min to 1 min
Welcome to the next in our KPMG sponsored webinars on digital Insurance. Thank you for joining me today and from around the world. Hope your and have a very enjoyable session on digital Banker shorts and your topic close to many of our hearts great opportunities particularly in the Asia Pacific region, very pleased to say we’ve got an asia-pacific focused line.
So we’re going to talk about digital Bancassurance primarily in the context of what’s going on in Asia. And as you know Asia is the fastest-growing Insurance region around the world. So I’m going to introduce the panelists now so I can go to the next slide our moderator today and she’s moderating for the third time is Alicia Joel and Alicia is Global Tech manager of the KPMG. She’s joining us from London.
Timestamp: 1 min to 2 min
And then we have as the KPMG subject matter experts we have for the first time a double act from Hong Kong with Liang show his partner at KPMG time China and Darren Pig partner at KPMG Hong Kong. Welcome to them and also Stephen Appleyard head of distribution for AXA Asia markets. He’s also based in Hong Kong and joining us from Hong Kong today, and then we have Rick Vargo managing director Bancassurance for DBS Bank.
Bank joining us from Singapore last but not least the junior wide group header Partnerships for the FWD group. Also joining from Hong Kong. So I will now hand over to Alicia who’s going to take you through some context and then hand over to the first Speaker today.
Perfect. Thanks Hugh. Yes, so welcome everyone and really exciting topic and like you mentioned a topic that’s really resonating through particularly in Asia.
Timestamp: 2 min to 3 min
So across across the whole globe and so really excited to look through some of the content that we’ve got ahead stay talking around how implementing digital Bancassurance is essentially going to hand it is essentially going to change the way we handle all insurance and so very excited to hear from as he said a double act coming up shortly. So I’ll give everybody around 10 minutes to talk including some questions. So please if you do have any please use the chat for them and will be
Tracking them and monitoring them and hoping to get as many of the key ones out of there. So I think with not much further Ado I will pass over directly so we can get into the content to lie hand and Aaron. Thank you, Alicia and thanks for the invitation to speak and I said they will act because I think the topic is so big. It’s almost too big to handle with one person. So we’ll share our perspective to take a broader view on.
Timestamp: 3 min to 4 min
The on the Bancassurance opportunity. So overall Deuces introduction and I think this is actually very very good timing for this topic. We call Spank Assurance has been around as everybody will realize already for decades. So you could wonder why why now to speak again about your Bancassurance, but it’s it looks like Bancassurance is going to need a kind of next phase of development many banks and insurance companies have formed all kinds of
Arrangements that some things have developed their own insurance arms, the mergers Acquisitions lose Partnerships more intense collaborations, but most likely if you look at all those examples, there’s not one winning formula that really dictates how Bancassurance should be successful in the market that couple bad effect. Actually that also the consumers are moving away in that sense that they are having higher expectations that there are getting more.
Timestamp: 4 min to 5 min
Use the more forms of digital so it’s not a kind of static targets that the Bancassurance should aim for and so we do believe that at the moment. It’s really critical that Banks and insurers are really going to collaborate better and to look at ways to improve their position. So with that actually I would like to hand it over to to Darren 2xe take to view of the customer.
Actually hell hi guys back to be here today. So I think before we dive directly into Bancassurance, I think it’s important just to take a step back and think about the actual customer in the sense of Bancassurance is obviously one of the distribution channels that we’re trying to get product to customers, but we know that customers expectations and behaviors are changing. So therefore it’s really important to make sure that we’re designing around that and often you hear a lot of insurers now starting to focus on Millennials and bikes alike and I think quite often we
we do start to get confused in the sense of we all think these are really
Timestamp: 5 min to 6 min
People but actually I’ve just missed out on being a millennial. So these are people aged between 1981 and 1996 time very disappointed by missing out on being Millennial by the way, me too and they are forming a vast proportion of the population these days so 2.5 billion of them in the world making up 31% of the population of the world as well. So really significant number of people they are also be think of those age ranges in terms of from 1981 to 1996.
People who are now aged between 23 and 38. So actually when you think about those key moments that matter and the key buying points, especially for insurance and the sense of when you first start to buy your first home when you get married when you have your first kid things like that it is tending to happen between those sorts of age ranges. So even though they might not be the main buyer today because baby boomers are still a generation that we’re selling most insurance products to for the near-term future. Millennials will be the target. So it’s really important.
Timestamp: 6 min to 7 min
We understand them understand their expectations and design any distribution channel for them. So just a few interesting stats. It’s always good to throw out a few steps on a slide. So across the top there. What do we know about Millennials at the moment? So we do know that the very digitally Savvy and socially active so that statistic there’s always a bit staggering in terms of 43 times is how often they actually check their phones in the day. We do also know that their life events are happening later. So sorry a lot of my statistics are from Asia but in Hong Kong,
Hong Kong for instance Millennials 84 percent of them are still living at home with their parents which again is quite a staggering figure when you think that’s people aged up to 38. So things are happening later in their lives. I always find it very scary this last stat in the sense of eight seconds is the average attention span of a millennial. So there are really used to convenience. They’re really used to information being delivered in quick and easy ways. So you really need to make sure that you’re grabbing their attention quite quickly. We also know
Timestamp: 7 min to 8 min
Other things in terms of that are much more willing to spend on experiences as opposed to assets and very heavily influenced by Pierre and online reviews as well. So all of these things are really important that we consider when we designing any distribution Channel around
the chart on the bottom of this slide is probably a little bit depressing read for the insurance people that join this call. So this is from our customer experience Excellence report that we do every year again. This is the the China focused when we do do this globally. So we’ve got various different reports for different countries, but actually what we do there is survey consumers and ask them about their experience with All Brands no matter what the sector that’s quite important in the sense of customers. These days aren’t comparing insurers with insurers or banks with banks. They are
equating their experiences with their last best experience. So actually it’s very important to understand how you rank against other Industries and other experiences that customers are having so slightly disappointing statistic, but probably comes as no surprise to us on the
Timestamp: 8 min to 9 min
And that insurance actually came 11th overall quite a long way behind banking which is actually interesting for this call as well. So banking things up there at fifth overall in terms of sub-sectors. Very interesting in China the first the kind of leader of the pack if you like with payment apps, so the likes of a leap a and things like that making things very instantaneous quick and easy in the China Market really came top in terms of experience. So Financial Services overall came relatively high, but that was really dragged up.
By the payment apps and actually the Lagarde of the patch slightly was insurance. So we do have a bit more to do unfortunately. So maybe if we click through to the next slide, so that’s a bit about customer now if we just focus on the current state of Bancassurance and we think about it Evolution. So obviously from the bank side. There’s a huge push to digital we’ve seen an awful lot of good work on the bank apps themselves and that’s offering customers much better experience. Its offering that convenience. It’s on
Timestamp: 9 min to 10 min
The 24/7 servicing as well. Obviously, there’s a big imperative for the banks to in terms of they are wanting to reduce their Branch Network. So reduce their own operating expenditure, but it doesn’t mean that more and more people are so much more au fait with actually doing all of their Banking online. So what that means is actually reducing football into the branches themselves, and actually when people are going into branches it tends to be because something’s gone wrong on the online experience and they’ve been referred into the branch. So actually if you think about traditional
well thank Assurance, which is really where the insurers were wanting to Target people coming into the branch and trying to sell to them while they’re in the branch that’s becoming more and more challenging both by the fact that there’s less people coming to the ranch in the first instance. But also when they are coming into Branch it tends to be easy because they’ve been referred into Branch because they’ve got a problem. So they’re coming in with a slightly frustrated mindset, which is the least best moment for relationship managed to jump on them and try and sell them an insurance product. So there is something to think about
Timestamp: 10 min to 11 min
That I think from the chart that I just showed in terms of insurers. We do know a lagging behind in the CX and the ux takes the banks of probably invested a little bit earlier on that front and also Insurance to be fair is hindered slightly by the Legacy systems that they have so actually in terms of being able to create a real seamless experience where you can do straight through processing I would argue slightly biased from an insurance perspective is a bit harder for the insurance.
There is also the constraints around Regulatory and operational constraints. So probably many people about the experience where they’ve gone into bank, especially if you’ve moved countries before we have to open a new bank account for instance. So you open a new bank account you go through all of the kyc all of the AFL questions, they then start to suggest. Would you like to look into certain Insurance products? And of course, then you have to go through all of those questions again because on to a different system, so there’s certain regulatory constraints that we need to get over and that’s before
Timestamp: 11 min to 12 min
Even come on to the thorny issue of who actually owns the customer when you’ve got a Bancassurance Arrangement. And so what data can be shared between the bank and the insurer because obviously to the customer they just want that seamless Journey. They don’t want to be seen to be handed over to different organizations. They just want to buy a product and be serviced. Well by the person that’s in front of them. However having said all of that I feel like I’m painting a bit of a new inclusive price so for the banks,
Firstly they want to offer and holistic wealth management portfolio of products. And so they need the insurers to do that for the insurers office in terms of understanding customer behaviors having lots more touch points and understanding all of those transaction points that customers have the banks have an awful lot more data that they can use to tailor and personalize their products as well. So if done correctly, I think Bancassurance remains an amazing distribution Channel, but with a few challenges to solve so I set up all the challenges and then I hand over to leha.
Timestamp: 12 min to 13 min
To tell you how to solve them all. Yeah. Thanks to Darren as we great at you and is up be supposed to know it’s because I became very depressed here as well. But as you said there so I think the key message is the customer is having higher expectations. So a really bronze Centric kind of blank Assurance model is not the way to go. So from from the what we learned from the market the clients really are requiring a kind of omni-channel approach. They want to be able to connect by phone by email by clicking.
Yet and and also use the range maybe more for a high-value advisory Services than for really trying to buy insurance products. And that is actually easier said than done even I think most people here in the corps or insurer or a bank will already experienced some challenges when you even try to optimize one channel, but if it has to be multiple touch points and channels and then also to base by Banks insurance, which in many cases are
Timestamp: 13 min to 14 min
Organizations that’s not an easy thing to do. So the key message would be let’s really try to break the silos between the bank teams and insurance teams to really create an omni-channel experience. And then as you see on the chart heavy would recommend like four steps to really start working this through and obviously it should start with the customer and our key message here is don’t think only insurance and Bank distribution.
But think about the broader needs of customers which could be around key life events either 12th growth. Well felt Builder or wealth management think about financial Family Planning retirement health and there are many broader topics that actually are already thoughtful especially is relevant for for Bancassurance position. Then the second item would be about this regulatory requirements in this is especially here and in Asia we see
Timestamp: 14 min to 15 min
Of frictions in the processes that customers have to go through at this to be compliant, but actually always had to make the process more seamless and and so regulatory crimes iOS automation or a I really try to make it much more integrated in the process. So it’s not so obvious for the customers that this is a kind of regulatory step that everybody has to go through and nobody likes then the third element is is about this sharing of data.
I think also many of you probably will recognize that the kind of challenge that we take the full benefit of leveraging customer data from both the bank and ensure that there will be some Regulatory and privacy constraints. However, I think through more of a joint data management which will allow to use more customer data and then obviously make make the customer part of it getting his custodian consent.
Timestamp: 15 min to 16 min
So that everyone is comfortable with this way of working and a finally and the future of Bancassurance will not stop only with banks Insurance working together having a new belief. If you think also about to pull the themes that other third parties will come into the fold as well. So think about establishing platforms which are really open and which we allow microservices applications to be added and not be locked into a kind of really restricted.
System that which can only work for the bank in issuer but that said overall at these are kind of key steps to take that the future will be very bright if the bank insurers are able to take this journey together. So is that Alicia I would like to get back to you for any questions or next steps. Yeah, perfect. So we do actually have a question that’s just come in and but while I organize that if I can ask everyone to participate in snap poll, so, thank you.
Timestamp: 16 min to 17 min
Hammond darn, you really did a good job there of co-presenting. So the snap poll question is should Banks build their own fulfillment front end or rebranded and insurance as with an insurance partner. So if you could all please have a look at that and and while we do that if I can switch to asking yourself Lee Han and Darren and we have a question that’s come in on the chat which is around Indemnity insurance. So Indemnity provided by in
Insurance or insurers? I think depends on the value of the risk at the time of the accident and what Krishna would like to know is is how do banks take care of that too. How do they how do they worry about? How do they consider the the risk aspect when contemplating how to how to price up policies?
There aren’t any property this question. So this way
Timestamp: 17 min to 18 min
Question, there’s a very specific must be something you can you hit yours. Yeah, we can hear you. I think I think if we go, even if we take the upper level to have my focus so much on the specific specific gravities, but to look at question. Yeah, how do I deal with that? Right? Right, right. So I actually also thinking maybe there’s also this the consumer element in here as so
If there are excellent and I guess it’s referring also to had the risk and how you handled that risk at the moment of the accident or space fast as possible. I think there’s also a bit of a opportunity to use the digital technologies that are out there and using your mobile phones its efforts about cases especially India’s quite Innovative where there’s combination of mobile phone taking pictures of the accidents using AI engine.
Timestamp: 18 min to 19 min
To make the assessment as quick as possible and thereby also notifications to the customer as soon as possible even some cases already confirmation of payments and resolutions within two hours. So I think this is part of the value proposition and that also Banks should work very closely with ensures to make that promise true. I come to to customers and with these risks basically also laughing Technologies to do it much better than in the traditional way.
Yeah, I think that’s I think that’s a very sensible suggestion and and just while we’re waiting for for for the poll results to come in. Another question is around sort of the app. Okay. There we go. The poll results are in. So here we go. So interesting that there’s a clear clear winner there. So 69 percent of the respondents think that Banks should be looking to partner with other with with Partners rather than build their own. And so I think that’s that’s
Timestamp: 19 min to 20 min
The as we would expect and as you’d probably agree Liam and Darren it’s probably a sensible and possible where proposition at five cents more an so to a good question. Yeah, perfect. Yeah Bilson story. That’s it. Everybody should do what they’re good at and there’s a lot of things to be done. So Partnerships definitely will be also the way that we would see perfect great. Perfect. Well if we can please Brooke then switch back to
Medics content great and again without much further Ado I’ll hand over to Steven. And so Steven the a pleased about it talk us through your your perspective. Hi everybody. Yeah, it’s really challenging time. I think for all of us in the insurance Market particularly in the Bancassurance pays we’ve relied on we’ve seen a lot of success in the growth of Bancassurance over the last few years in really sort of advocating for insurance being able to reach out to many of our customers.
Timestamp: 20 min to 21 min
In a traditional face-to-face environment and our custom we recognize that with the Millennials. They’re not where we thought they were they’re not where they used to be. They’re not coming to the branches anymore. They’re not picking up the phone to tell him marketing opportunities at the really not where we where we historically saw them to be. I think the challenge for us is to is like many Brands where we’ve historically light relied on Brands and relationships to create.
Value, we now finding that the Millennials they don’t they don’t attach themselves to Brands. They don’t attach themselves to the Loyalty that they used to they tend to refer to peers rather than the brand reputation and they also not us attached to creation of assets and the traditional career paths and traditional ways of working. So they’re much more experienced orientated less asset driven. So I think the challenge that we have as well as we’ve got a fairly sizable customer.
Timestamp: 21 min to 22 min
In the Bancassurance Pace, we recognize that it’s under threat banks are under Threat by other payment channels by non banking services. And as a result, we are under threat as as a service provider to those Banks if I just move to the next slide, I won’t really dwell on this but isn’t as a composite ensure across the globe. We’re really struggling with how we can make this how we can reach Bancassurance cash.
Customers we’ve fortunate in many of our markets to have good distribution agreements with bank Partners, but we’re also in a maybe a more fortunate position in that we have joint ventures and in markets and I think the how we operate in a joint venture and how we can reach the customers to lie hounds Point earlier about about the the channel conflict or the conflicts between the the compliance issues. We have less of those in the joint ventures than we do in a Traditional Bancassurance.
Timestamp: 22 min to 23 min
But we clearly have quite a sizable. We have about 40 million customers in our bank Partners in Southeast Asia. We obviously have a deal with ing in Europe, but we are actively struggling in this area. If I go to the next slide just very quickly. I’ll just move on we talked about the sort of five areas where we’re trying to develop new models of reaching our customers cost-effectively and I think the challenge for us at this moment is a cost across the industry is
The cost effective reach to the Casbah customers across the different customer segments. So when is in consideration we a lot of activity around this but again Millennials tend to react very differently towards push push of messages and push of marketing Communications. So they require a much more I suppose a much more sophisticated approach to bringing their awareness towards the product consideration from
Timestamp: 23 min to 24 min
Annuals they tend to think about today rather than tomorrow. And so we’re again faced with challenges of making our products and our services relevant to those people on the purchasing side in terms of how we bring customers to actually wish to purchase the products. These are the I don’t want to belabor the negative points from the KPMG presentation, but it is really a challenge that we all face in how we align ourselves to the new new customers the new
new ways that they wish to work from our perspective. The high-net-worth clients are still going to require that personalized service and the bank see value in those High net worth clients and the high touch and we see that as continuing for this at this moment. But as we go down the different segments of the customers, we recognize that it becomes increasingly challenging to cost effectively reach them and achieve the volumes of sales that we’ve historically it.
Timestamp: 24 min to 25 min
Historically achieved so we kind of look at these different customer segments and the different stages in terms of customers buying and try to address the challenges if I have a look at the next slide. I just talked about some of the areas where we are trying to develop our Solutions.
If you move on to the next slide, please.
Yeah, in terms of the sort of their five areas where we’re experimenting at the moment in trying to deliver a next generation of insurance sales and servicing. So the e-commerce platforms we’re working quite closely with a number of our partners in integrating our services into their into their banking platform. So the earlier question regarding should the bank purchase should the bank leverage our platforms are actually
we integrate of build their own Platforms in our Partnerships. We’re seeing a number of our bank Partners actually building insurance.
Timestamp: 25 min to 26 min
A key component of the Bancassurance the wealth management Suite on to their own platform and here we are providing the API feeds to their front end so that they can provide a seamless customer Journey my doing that within the bank’s environment were finding that some of the compliance issues that were raised earlier on being eliminated and that’s that’s only possible. If you are in an effectively in a it’s easier in a JV partnership than it is in a Bancassurance agreement, but we’re
having some success in that area. I think we’ve always tried to find ways of pre-approved products. This is just a way of reducing the friction through the underwriting process. We’ve seen some success in those areas, but the challenges in terms of merging data from a bank with an insurance company to establish propensities to by propensities to claim are fraught with legal legal minefields.
Timestamp: 26 min to 27 min
We have done that quite successfully across a couple of Bank Partnerships. And that’s just providing the Priam pre-approved or pre underwritten products so that it’s a click and click approve process. It’s I think the challenge for this is that it’s bringing our products down to transactional products to commodity products rather than value-added Services. I think one of the things that we recognize and insurances that it needs to be more than an Actuarial pricing model today is
consumers want much more of an experience around the product that provides much more value added service. So in terms of prevention in terms of cure in terms of care Aftercare customers are wanting a much more holistic solution and yet the online process is driving us towards a more simplistic answer and there’s a real tension between how we provide customers with a relevant product and how we create that simplicity so that it’s easily it.
Timestamp: 27 min to 28 min
Easy to purchase in terms of the marketing analytics. We’ve done a lot of things in the data analytic side in Acts Iraq, particularly across southeast Asia in trying to identify the customers with the propensities to buy and this is more a defensive measure than an offensive strategy. We have had some success in it and the final area really is around experimenting with chat Bots and
It’s difficult to see how we achieve with currently experimenting with it. I think it’s fair to say that we’re at an early stage in what we’re doing. But the are at the challenge here is the cost effectiveness of what we’re doing with respect to to technology and the scale with which we can apply in markets where we have 250 million customers or 15 million 20 million customers of a bank. There’s clearly a scale and a
Timestamp: 28 min to 29 min
At Unity to do this, but when we apply it to a country like Hong Kong where we have six to eight million it the challenge is making that cost effective. And so we’re really I would say that we’re struggling with some of the challenges that the guys from KPMG presented earlier, but we’re making steady progress across a number of our markets. So I with that I’ll hand back to the team or Rick I should say.
Okay. Well, thank you Steve. And that was that was really insightful and really interesting especially to understand directly from yourselves their perspectives and what you guys are facing in the context of what gave him do presented. So without much further Ado before I go to some of the really interesting questions that have been sorry. I’ve got a fire alarm going on here.
Timestamp: 29 min to 30 min
Right without much further Ado. I will now go to the poll question. So how should insurers best position their digital capabilities to win ship opportunities with banks. Should they look to API enable technology micro-insurance and digitally enabled products price competitive product score enabled by super low cost operating base DNA insights that can assist with targeting of products to customers. Everyone wants to answer.
Timestamp: 30 min to 31 min
Alicia’s in transit so what result online actually so I’m going to give a little bit of country while other issue is on the move. So the poll was old you can see and in front of you actually a very clear and quite decisive winner. There is around insurers offering API enabling
Offer inspiration to Dynamics text back some quite a quite an interesting result is sort of how can we use technology to integrate stuff and Steven? What’s the something experience being in this area for you? So I could you ask that going? Sorry I missed that using the API enable.
Timestamp: 31 min to 32 min
Our Technologies as a Zacks. I had much experience on that oneself in in our in our emerging markets were doing a lot of API feeds around lead generation and connectivity with the bank in order to create an airtight system for the for for the face-to-face sales. So we have I think one of the things that’s driving the banks as a lot of compliance issues around the selling practices the currently currently in Southeast Asia.
Asia and I think one of the one of the compliance issues has been sort of leads and data and so we’ve done some it we’ve done some work on the API feet with regards to data submissions and data data feeds from the bank. Okay grace even so I will bring you back on the Q&A at the end and what we’ll do now is hand over to Rick. So Rick over to you for your presentation. You can come off mute. I’ll be great.
Timestamp: 32 min to 33 min
Good day, everyone. I trust everyone can hear me. I’m going to talk a little bit about I guess the DBS experience and where we are with Bancassurance with not only where we are in Asia, but a little bit more about our home Market of Singapore, which is our primary market and at eighty percent of our overall Bancassurance is generated out of out of our home Market in Singapore for those of you that aren’t aware DBS.
Is an Asian based in Asian focused Bank we operate in six markets in Asia are home Market of Singapore or also have a large presence in Indonesia a much smaller presence in India currently and in the north Asia markets were in Hong Kong Taiwan and in China next slide, please.
Timestamp: 33 min to 34 min
A little bit about our 2018 results. We are the largest bankruptcy rinse provider in Singapore at the end of last year and through the first quarter of this year with just over a third of the new business market share last year for us. We had a pretty strong year in terms of our overall business in these markets of generating just over a billion dollars of new premium. We have two primary.
Strategic partners that we work with in Asia Manulife Financial in four of our markets, Indonesia, Singapore Hong Kong and China and for are non-life business. We work closely with Chubb insurance in those four markets plus Taiwan. We have currently 650,000 customers and growing and we’re very much a very digitally focused.
Timestamp: 34 min to 35 min
Bank, and consequently a lot of our Bancassurance business now is very much in a transformation mode to provide both direct to consumer product offers product Solutions predominantly through our general insurance partner and what I call digital enablement of RRM teams who are primarily focused in our life insurance product Solutions and working with various digital.
And ableman tools are tablets are point of sale system and tool that we use in most of our markets called your financial profile to assist customers in a customer experience Journey that ends up with straight through processing back to manual like for after fulfillment. They get a nice package from Manulife with their policy their records and they get an encrypted email with all of the fact-finding that went on the
Timestamp: 35 min to 36 min
Illustration and all the documents that were completed on that on that tablet to assist them in the sale next slide.
How we have tried to differentiate ourselves. We have I guess the Good Fortune of marrying a very strong brand and being recognized in Asia is the largest bank in Southeast Asia with high reputation and high trust levels being a bank with domiciled in Singapore and that really helps us obviously in marketing our Bancassurance products as we all know Bancassurance or Insurance products are based on trust.
And a piece of paper and if you don’t have the trust relationship and the reputation behind it both from the bank and the insurance company are not going to go very far in a Bancassurance relationship. Our relationships are very much focused on long-term.
Timestamp: 36 min to 37 min
Collaborative Partnerships, we had one question before and I’ll address that question as I talk about our Partnerships a bit. Both Partnerships have established long-term 15-year Partnerships with both Manulife and job in the region. We went into kind of an open market bid both of those bids for the life partnership and the GI partnership or highly competitive the life.
Partnership was consummated and commenced in 2016 the GI partnership with Chubb commenced in 2018. We ultimately ended up with both of those companies based on a their commitment to Asia their length of time in Asia their commitment their experience in Asia, but also perhaps more importantly where they saw the business evolving in the future and the focus on in a line.
Timestamp: 37 min to 38 min
Anton strategic alignment so to speak in terms of recognizing that this business was going to transform particularly in some of the more affluent markets that were in as well as the growth markets that were in and that being digitally focused and understanding both the competitive threats in the custard demand of what customers and consumers we perceive would be increasingly looking for not only
knowledge but also ultimately Solutions and fulfillment through this digital transformation going on in the world were important decisions and why we chose both of those Partnerships at the heart of all of what we do is the customer and really trying to understand their needs and working with our Insurance Partners in developing solutions that are Innovative to help address these Solutions and offer these products and really
Timestamp: 38 min to 39 min
Of a multiple distribution format at the end offering convenience and and simplicity to Consumers and freedom of choice next slide, please in Singapore. We have an overall aspiration of obtaining 1 million singaporeans. We have a concept about ensure every family and every home in Singapore with both the combination of our life insurance and our
GI product Solutions in Singapore were good fortune to have just about everyone has a bank account of some sort with DBS and increasingly with the data and the ability of big data now and data analytics were able to reach them at a convenient time and help them understand their needs and come up with appropriate Solutions. We really focus on these days the underprepared
Timestamp: 39 min to 40 min
We have a rapidly aging population not only in Singapore. But in many of the markets were working in and helping them really understand their long-term needs particularly for retirement is a big area where we focus on the underinsured. There’s a massive protection Gap as we’re all aware of and Asia and helping people understand the reasons why and what they can do about those in a simple way and helping them with basic protection products that will reduce some of those
it’s and in Singapore and Hong Kong or we have strong Market presence. The high-net-worth market is just a market that’s not going away. It’s growing and we’re very well positioned to help our high net-worth customers with their legacy planning and estate planning Solutions with some more comprehensive and sophisticated insurance and Trust Solutions.
Timestamp: 40 min to 41 min
Staying relevant to our customers this slide I think talks about and I just developed this slide just to talk a little bit about a couple of our more recent product Solutions. These are two examples of product solutions that we have now that are digitally enabled. We have a mobile protect product, which we felt was something that was important based on a the amount of mobile devices out there in the fact that people aren’t
Earning them over every six months but actually keeping some of their mobile phones for a while. We have a mobile protect product that protects a person for loss or use of their their mobile device up to three years old. They can purchase it very simply on our payment app. It’s priced competitively and is something that we think appeals to the millennial Market that you were just talking about earlier.
Timestamp: 41 min to 42 min
We also launched late last year a cyber protect product which is kind of unique because in addition to protecting against data intrusion. It also has a cyberbullying protection benefit bullying in some of our markets is is a issue in a concern and this is a product that we felt was something that was different and could offer parents that have children that are victims of
have bullying if they’re victims of bullying at school at typically becomes also into social media and cyber bullying and parents are at a loss of where to go and what to do. This particular product has a benefit of providing a solution to help parents with something at a very unfortunate and very sensitive point in time. So they give you just these are two examples of recent products that we worked on with chub and brought to the Market within the last six to eight.
Timestamp: 42 min to 43 min
my next slide, please.
Digital synergies there was a question on apis. I’m glad most of the people in the poll shows that apis are important and that’s become an increasingly valuable tool not only for DBS in creating apis that people can take from us, but also working with our to Bancassurance Partners in creating apis for us to ingest on their information in our products and services. We have to remember right now that the vast majority of our insurance.
It’s still are not sold on a direct-to-consumer basis. We still do a lot of work and most of our insurance policies are still sold in the branches are through RMS or through our private Bankers, but by having the API connectivity or able to create straight through processing and able to process appropriate information back and forth much more effectively.
Timestamp: 43 min to 44 min
And for a bank like DBS, it still is transforming its it systems. It still has some Legacy systems the apis that were able to enable on either side of our partnership has allowed us to be able to come to the market much more quickly and much more effectively and create some digital product Solutions through our mobile apps through our mobile phone and through our payment app such as pay law in Singapore.
Ecosystems on the third Little Dot I have here. We’ve been spending a lot of time and looking at consumers and developing ecosystems, whether it be based on payments or even platforms largely based on lifestyle and helping people and putting around product Solutions based on these platforms and ecosystems. We feel is going to be something that’s going to be increasingly valuable and increasingly important.
Timestamp: 44 min to 45 min
For us as we do a better job and continue to look for ways to improve the way that we service and address the needs of our of our clients.
And I have our next slide, please. And I think that’s it for me at this point in time. Thank you.
All right. Thank you very much Rick and he’s just going to answer ask you one or two questions are many of our going to pull up the poll question first so that one can answer. So the poll question is what percentage of Bank fee income could be generated from Bancassurance in a digital world, and we’ve got four options there and for you to be able to answer so please go ahead and give your view on that and what I might do Rick is before we show the poll results is asking you to share your view on that.
at that answer as well and then we’ll see how your view Compares with the rest of the audience, but you’re probably wondering why I’m on as
Timestamp: 45 min to 46 min
Writer, so I don’t know if you picked up earlier Alicia. Unfortunately, there was a fire alarm went off in the KPMG offices in London. Good news. Is she she’s okay. There’s no far far as far as I know but she’s outside. It’s a little bit inconvenient for her to ask the question. So I’m stepping in asking the questions. So Rick there were quite a number of topics that I’d like to cover probably in the group chat right around data data and analytics in particular, but I
To ask you a specific question, which kind of goes back to the poll result the first poll results he had right which was around use of technology. And I know that one of the things that DBS did which is a little bit different from the rest of the market. Was it invested in its own Point of Sales solution a number of years ago. So in a sense it took the view that it wanted to sort of only if you like that technology I was thinking maybe you could share just some experience on that and how that has has gone in reality and whether that’s
Timestamp: 46 min to 47 min
Worked out for you. Thanks you yes, it has worked out. Well, it is an engine that we call. Yfp. Are your financial profile? It’s used in Singapore and in Hong Kong and in Singapore we get up to about 95 percent of our business through. Yfp in Hong Kong. That’s Approximately 80% of our businesses is
Is generated by the RMS through this your financial profile sales process the reason we took that in house and I should say it’s partially in house, but then it’s partially some of the middleware and the back end is very much integrated with the Bancassurance partner. So it does have straight through processing back back to the insurance partner and it was developed very much in a collaborative manner. The reason I think
Timestamp: 47 min to 48 min
He took it is we needed to be controlled since we manage our own sales forces. We felt that owning. The sales process would be the right thing to do to be able to control the compliance the training and to ensure we had management control over what was being said, how is being said in a way it was being said through that customer Journey where the insurance companies then come into it is through their benefit illustration systems their
oceans and then the various sign-offs that we need to provide in those markets from a consumer declaration and consumer awareness of what they’re purchasing and then all of that packet goes through once there’s fulfillment that takes place it goes to the insurance companies on The General Insurance side. We are in the process of rolling out a very simple tablet in our branches for poor travel insurance and
Timestamp: 48 min to 49 min
Is being co-developed right now with chub. So that in the branches of persons want to purchase travel insurance through one of our service staff they can do so easily with the tablet one of the advantages by doing it this way also is that we can with the clients permission. We can Auto populate that information so that we don’t have to sit there and fill everything out. It’s a person is interested would be able to Auto populate and expedite the
consummation of the sale of those of those types of products
Right. Thank you Rick and come back with a couple more questions later. They’re also been two questions in the Q&A panel, which I think are specifically DBS related. So if you do happen to get to the Q&A panel, maybe even types of responses Hawlucha. Thank you Rick and last but not least and thank you for waiting. So patiently I want to hand over to all where we haven’t had the poll result right? It’s going to come up.
Timestamp: 49 min to 50 min
What do you think of that rate? Was that broadly in line with your your view? You know here? I think it doesn’t surprise me that it’s spread out because I do think you have to add a time element to this question. I think that if you are a new startup and you’re very focused on digital Solutions, you’re going to have a far greater percentage of your business is going to be generated digitally if you’re a traditional company or Traditional Bank assure with
Embedded business and platforms and processes so far that journey to transform the digital is going to take a much longer period of time. So I think if I think about the amount of Revenue or generating from digital versus our entire revenue of Bancassurance, it’s probably single digit right now and it will grow I imagine to the low teens to the 20% range. It’ll take a few years to do. So and then if we ever get into that
Timestamp: 50 min to 51 min
Over the 30% range. I think it will really depend on the market segments that you’re in the type of product Solutions. You’re offering. I think Steve quite rightfully mentioned before I think in the high-net-worth space in the affluent space and in markets like Singapore and Hong Kong as well as affluent segments. I think you’re going to need an RM or an RM assisted channel for a long period of time before people are going to be comfortable or until we can figure out how to create a
Vista cated solutions that high-net-worth people going to be comfortable in purchasing in a full self-directed manner.
All right. Thanks Rick, and I’ll now move on and hand over to Virginia’s. Thank you for joining you for waiting so patiently I look forward to hearing your contribution to the discussion over to you. Okay? Thank you. Hi everyone, I’m Virginia of FWD group. So
Timestamp: 51 min to 52 min
Stability compatibility is a quite a Young Insurance Group. We attack published in 20 and 13 years six years ago with Hong Kong McHale and Thailand as of now six years later. We expanded to nine countries already. Yeah, so when we enter into each country, so what would what is our strategies? I’m going to share with you. So I’m going to
to talk about how we innovate for our partners next slide, please.
The partnership is activity group. We are not only talking about Partners like Bank. In fact from this slide. You can see that we have bank and non-bank for the bank one on the left hand side or the traditional channels branches all Center.
Timestamp: 52 min to 53 min
Of management centers, but as well as the sister Channel, we do internet banking website and we also have a pi weather is an open API or closed API ATM machine and Chaos as well. And we also partner with a lot of non-bank channels. We partners with retail stores credit card company and call.
Enter and online retail shops as well and also will have the face-to-face Channel with the retail store as well as the non face-to-face Channel as well.
So I’m going to share with you some of the example next slide, please.
Okay, so because the topic today is talking about the digital. So this is the three countries we would like to share with you how
Timestamp: 53 min to 54 min
Be neutralized our Partnerships stopped from the bank issuing. So in Thailand tnb is a one of our exclusive been publishing in Thailand. We started from the traditional be branches distribution, but EMB actually have a solely digital banking segment what they call tmdb.
It just just just like the you know, the virtual banking the customer of the tmb me customer can only do digital services. So we insurance is one of the digital product tmdb.
In the middle is a Vietnam when we enter into the Vietnam maquette as we said we are not only doing the bank.
Timestamp: 54 min to 55 min
Be also activate the you Commerce so T key to key. So one of the leading online retailers that Nam they are selling over 6,000 Prada including Fox fashion, something like that. And of course insurance is one of the products so they only partners with tnb in cancer product. So this is truly the b2c.
See become us perform a hundred percent stressful process with our partner to keep and the right-hand side is Philippines true money through money is the low cost financial status being tech company actually true money partners with some of the stores. The store can be a bookstore or can be either supermarket store and they are
Timestamp: 55 min to 56 min
Link to how to use true money surface. So the customer can laugh at your true money surface, including the Butte pavement limiters. And of course now insurance so they are we are also there.
So partnership is so we we produce a digital partnership. We can access to many many customer with the other partners and also all the insurance selling is just straight through process hundred percent Improvement in venue work or the digital.
speaks like this
Okay, I want to talk more on this tnb be digital think so.
Timestamp: 56 min to 57 min
What we do when you look at the cell phone the medium, in fact, they have the sample is called a tree product here in sure beam and be safe. Be sure and me move is talking about their personal loan product as well as the other signal other bank deposit product needs sure a me safe is the insurance product and we actually do in the
as you said ten five five years pay and ten years and almonds product is sio product. The customer need to fill in does a simple product and then after they submitted and we can issue the policy on the spot and then they will get the policy information the devices and so we built in over the simple know your customer and straightforward process.
Timestamp: 57 min to 58 min
And also the payment they can use credit card and also can use a direct mapping with this entity and be careful. So we are the first insurance company and with this digital strict rule as CP process in Thailand. So that’s why we can all get the report of the first insurer in Thailand to of the disadvantaged.
Your life insurance on the online what I want the key point I want to say in here is to be very honest as of nowaday as Rick also say that still at the moment the consumer behavior on Bancassurance is a more on the traditional. They still would like to make that appointment to meet their our m.
Timestamp: 58 min to 59 min
On to talk about the wealth management services, including the insurance, but however using deafening leveraging on the digital platform first can provide some simple product to help the new customer segment called a dome to see the LM or they don’t have time to go to the branches. But at least food is digital platform they can get
Her insurance policy as the the first step and then while we got all the information data, then of course we can do the upsell and cross-sell your through digital traditional process.
So I mix like this.
This is the really one of my it is my last line and also is my free 58.
Timestamp: 59 min to 60 min
life, which is talking about how we how we see the publisher know we are for the activity always say that our goal is changing the way people feel our own insurance and we focus on three areas different us Superior digital experience to engage our customer to enhance the engagement of our
Murr the customer can be the everyone.
Candida, our partners our bank or non-bank or all the in the Medias. Also. Our already is our policy holder how we can engage them even more effectively. So with Superior digital experiences one of our core and we pursue technology and operation.
Timestamp: 60 min to 61 min
Efficiency and Reach digital core to our agility speed to market. The fur is the remain persistent our new business model how we remain agile and continuously evolve new business model to enhance partnership integration to expansion. So this is our plea core area on the partnership and teacher
Distribution and how we use our ecosystem to partner with either the social media like, you know Tiki one our store eCommerce and also our bank on that as well.
So this is really what so far at this for me now.
Thank you, Virginia. Thanks for that and sharing that great news. Is that Alicia is?
Timestamp: 61 min to 62 min
A now back with us and she’s back in sit you so very slickly and this is life. We had straight back to Alicia and she’ll share the poll taken forward. So you should thanks. Thank you and thank you for genius. Oh, there’s the poll question is do you think Bancassurance will dominate agency in terms of distribution in Asia say more than thirty sixty five percent share. So if everyone can answer that and then Virginia and that was really fascinating and really interesting and what I would really like to know is
is it sort of the FWD brand it’s designed to appeal to Millennials. And how do you see them being serviced by the bank in the future? So when they are the age of the Baby Boomers, what do you think? The insurance products will look like and it’s obviously just a an opinion. I I know don’t have a crystal ball. But what would you think the the types of products that you’re designing for them? And in the future would look like I would say that the problem proposition.
Timestamp: 62 min to 63 min
Is important because as you said while you are the main aerial, or maybe you are not the misery. Oh, so doing your age spam at each age band. You will have your need like when you are student your parent may need money to support your education while you get married to build your family. You also need support to to build up your family to have a kid. So I think as the insurance company
Any to work closely with the been Partners how to define the customer proposition how to introduce a great product to that right segment. This is one thing but surance committee and the bank should work clothes. Hang in hand to discover. The customer needs by the proper product propositions.
Yeah. No, I think that’s a really good. That’s really interesting and
Timestamp: 63 min to 64 min
A really good way to look at it as a grouping as a as an age category. That’s that’s that’s really definitely something that I think would be a winning formula and then just on the kind of have a go right? There we go. We’ve got their poll results there in so Virginia Lee the general listeners think that it wouldn’t dominate so 45% think of that in terms of distribution. They wouldn’t be more than a 65% share. What what do you think about that result mean? There’s not that much in it, but what’s your view on?
Is great match with my expectation as well in the for the Bancassurance of causing the bank always have a massive customer base and the the bank customer always build a trust on the bank. It will be more easy to facilitated Insurance selling anything but having said that now they be Commerce is rising rapidly so that you Commerce as I go.
Timestamp: 64 min to 65 min
Some example and you you can partner with some big retail store the big retail store also have a huge of a customer base. So I will say that the bank after the prime to get insurance more easily because of the trust are also because of picking of the customer but as well as the other organization also have the bigger customer base can also develop the good insurance purposes.
Ian and customers as well. So I would say is do more a multi-digit version Channel. Yeah what I can see in your future great. Perfect. Great. Well, I think we probably have time for one one or two questions for that the QA say Virginia. Thank you for that and you’ve got a couple of questions yourself as well, which I’m sure you’ll get to in from the QA. So before we go to the the final QA and I think one of the key questions
Timestamp: 65 min to 66 min
It was actually from you. So you and did you want to ask the panelist your question around digital first?
Yeah, I do actually and this is partly partly inspired actually by sort of Rick uses this term digital which is this combination of physical and digital and I use this term sort of digital first for the right man of human. And what I wanted to do was kind of explore with the panel just their views on this because what we see at one end is made non-life products digital only approach making with RMS. We see primarily a physical first of
Option is there all this Gap in between to cover and it seems to me that this is where a lot of the insurers and the banks are thinking about so maybe we could have one or two panelists address that maybe Rick as as you’ve got the term fidget or you could give your perspective on this. I think this fits and resonates well with the whole concept.
Timestamp: 66 min to 67 min
Of the omni-channel and in this increasingly digital world that were in we all need to recognize and whether it’s insurance or any other product. It’s often times will even look at something online first and perhaps go to a store or will go to a store first and then go online or perhaps call someone up and talk to a customer service department before we make a final purchasing decision, and I don’t think it’s going to
going to be all that much different in the future when people make decisions on financial products including Insurance where certain products they will feel comfortable have the knowledge understand what they’re looking for and be comfortable and confident and I’m going online and making an immediate decision to at the complete extreme end where for whatever reason they talk first to a relationship manager and develop a relationship with an
Timestamp: 67 min to 68 min
Is there a relationship manager at a bank or an agent and and make a decision almost exclusively based on the advice of that individual and then you have everything in between which means that people are going to be perhaps shopping a bit online and trying to learn as much as they can on line about their retirement needs. What is these critical illness risks that people are talking about perhaps on a Sunday night going through their own protection Gap and understanding how much they might need in terms of their future in.
Come and then either continue their journey and going right on through to buying something online or on a Monday morning picking up the phone and making a phone call. And where we are at DBS is we want to try to create customer Journeys that are we like to use the learn seamless but creating customer Journeys where it doesn’t really matter whether the person’s going a hundred percent digital or a hundred percent physical or this fidget 11e thing in between. We want them to have the same Journey the
Timestamp: 68 min to 69 min
Same language the same information the same recommendations in the same advice that’s easy to say and it’s hard to do but that’s kind of where we are right now in terms of how we’re thinking about Transforming Our Bancassurance experience so that we can give people that that that option and again, it goes back to Bancassurance in terms of being freedom of choice in terms of where and how they want to be served and then offering it in a convenient manner at a competitive price.
Greg thanks, Rick and any any other views and perspectives on that one, Virginia thoughts. Yeah to Echo. What a rich rich set. I think I’m the the digital and able us can always facility to smooth out the end-to-end process for the Bancassurance distribution some of the
Timestamp: 69 min to 70 min
Bessie, you know operational process it can be teacher denies then it will give more time for the customer and our em to reduce it down to discuss about what they need rather than focus on all the operation of things. So I think teach it all can be the energy to facilitate the Bancassurance sales process.
Okay, thank you and Lee Han and down the double act. Maybe the last last word on this this question words.
Needs to come off mute.
So we can’t hear you at the moment. Are they get here is yep. Yep, perfect. So I think to be honest, I would Echo everything that’s just been said I think I saw an interesting stat the other day which was Hong kong-based where people for financial products will use two point six different channels.
Timestamp: 70 min to 71 min
Before they buy so I think at the moment definitely everyone is looking for both. Its what Rick said that the seamless online to offline channels. Basically what they don’t want to do is have to go through the same process again, so it’s really important that the data can be shared between the different channels that are choosing to use. I also think people and talking about Millennials again. They want to be armed with the information as well. So still here in Asia. Certainly. I think there’s a big Affinity towards the agents and when you actually get to the point of purchase a lot
of people are still take a lot of comfort in terms of sitting down with the physical person to get them over the line, but they do want to do a lot of Discovery first and really understand the products and narrow down their options set and come armed talk to the agent knowing vaguely what they want or inquire targeted way another sort of two or three products that might be relevant to them and then they just want that additional bit of encouragement just to get over the line with a physical interaction. So I think I would Echo everything that everyone said in the
Timestamp: 71 min to 72 min
It’s all about offering or trying to offer seamless opportunities possible for customers to engage in whatever Channel they want to and make sure that that data flows through so that everyone can understand exactly what’s happened in the other channels. Yeah, also not to beat this topic to death rather than just to add to what parents yet in my perspective perception and insurance always has been a lot of intense Perrin see and people needed to speak to person exit get the right information.
But I do expect that if you are getting more transparent is industry provide more data more access and that the actual connections to the actual visor become much more value-adding and much more targeted and not so much about information sharing that much more about advising and I think that’s probably the biggest shift that we can make is being assurance.
Right over to you Alicia. Yeah new suit.
Timestamp: 72 min to 73 min
The question that I have for the panel is really around the cultural viability and and how you think that in the future Banks and insurers and ensure text will be able to culturally work together to produce products that are relevant to them to their new market. So when we look at insurers and in and Bank relationships currently, how do you think they’ll change in the future? How do you think they’ll need to change with the rise of some of the insurer text?
So maybe I’ll go first on that one. Yeah that there is a big shift and we’ve all seen every strategy of every insurer recently as all been around customer centricity. So I think previously you’ve had kind of a very Inside Out view in the sense of you know insurers approach this from a from an Actuarial perspective. How do I actually look at risk? And what’s what what product can I create that’s going to be profitable in the market. I think for both insurers Banks and definitely fintechs. Everyone is now coming at this from the customer angle.
So I think
Timestamp: 73 min to 74 min
Because you come at things from a customer angle Partnerships become so important because actually no one’s got the full solution to satisfy your customer needs. So I actually think culturally as we’re not there yet. But as everyone starts to move more towards actually focus on customer centricity input and customer at the heart of everything that they do. Actually you’ll naturally see an alignment of those different organizations to Serve customer needs.
Great. Yes, and that that I don’t think anyone could disagree with that. I think that’s a really good answer and as anyone else got an opinion on how how in short X and some of the banks will work together in the future any of the other panelists. I think the trust between the bank and insurance committee is crucial. I know that they is the data customer data privacy issue, but however, you know, if the insurance company and the bank and work closely together.
Better to look at the bank database together and then too.
Timestamp: 74 min to 75 min
Then the insurance company can have a more understanding about the bank data. Then they can tailor make the product to shoot those product segments to shoot those customer segment. Yeah, perfect. Very good. I think that’s probably we’ve got time for is another here.
I’ve been working up and you can have so few words, but do that and then I’ll do a quick wrap up. Okay, great. I was just going to add that. We have explored a number of Ensure Tex and fintechs to look at coming across with I mentioned before there’s this ecosystem type of concept or platform type of concept. So we have been discussing with a number of different organizations and trying to come up with something so I do think you’ll see
Some things coming out in the next six months to a year or so. I’m not really at Liberty to say what we’re doing and how we’re doing it, but there’s some very interesting discussions.
Timestamp: 75 min to 76 min
Russians going on to say the least and you’re very much folks have been saying it’s a lot of it is around data who owns the data how the data can be shared how you can create these customer Journeys in these customer value propositions that going to make sense for everybody going forward. So very interesting times for us all but I do think certainly a DVS we’re looking to do as much collaboration is possible and realize that you know consumers are really looking for these
ins that they can make inconvenience that some of these ecosystems and platforms and tie-ups can can create an offer for people.
All right. Perfect. Thank you. And I think you I think we probably apps at time. Now if you see the wrap-up. Yes, we are and I’m going to do it very very quickly. Thank you everyone for listening. Thank you for our panelists for participating if you like this topic keep an eye out for the next edition of our KPMG in sure.
Timestamp: 76 min to 77 min
Inside so next week. We’ve got a couple of articles on digital Bancassurance we go to the next slide. I’ll do the plug that we’ve been doing for the last couple of webinars on live Fest 2019 world’s largest online Festival of digital insurance. If you’re thinking about getting your Awards entries in please do so by the end of the month. So we’ve got the ensure Tech Awards and insurance Innovation Awards coming up and then we’ve got 5 online sessions time zones around the world. So that’s in the month of sort of end of
go burning through November start of December other events that we’ve got coming up we go to the next page a lot of participation. We’ve got in different events and different parts of the world which myself or my colleagues are involved in our next webinar from KV + G is on the 4th of September. So a little bit of a break over the summer period is on organizational design and strategy. So how do we get to the people’s side of digital insurance? And how do we make sure?
Timestamp: 77 min to 78 min
An upscale and design organizations appropriately later on the year. We’ve also got participation in the I clam Congress, which is a specialist conference on life Assurance medicine and it’s a congress. That’s one one once every three years and this is the first line in Asia for about 30 years instead of being done by and we’re helping out a bit on the inshore Tech stream on that as well. So that’s it. Hope you enjoyed this discussion on digital.
And Assurance, I certainly did. I always think 75 minutes is never enough, but I hope it’s whetted your appetite and you get into the Shopkins. Thank you everyone and thank you particularly for our panelists and moderator for doing today’s session. So, thank you. Thank you.